Comments on The House Next Door: T.V. on TV: Extras and The Knights of Prosperity

Oh, I just realized that I'm suddenly posting as "...

2007-02-18T20:39:00.000-05:00

Oh, I just realized that I'm suddenly posting as "Nomi" for some reason. I mean, that is my name, but I think all of my other posts are as "NSpector." I don't really get it, because my nonexistent blog is under the name of NSpector. But, anyway, in my last comment I referred to an earlier one of mine; it's the one by NSpector.

Since my last comment I've ended up rewatching mos...

2007-02-17T22:47:00.000-05:00

Since my last comment I've ended up rewatching most of Curb, watching four Larry David interviews (including the one Ricky Gervais did), and reading several Ricky Gervais interviews, including those anon linked.

Not to take anything away from Gervais' tremendous talent, but he has a certain . . . well, dare I say, vanity, a particular kind of self-consciousness that I realize does in fact permeate Extras in a perverse way. I say perverse, because the show is so obviously about the various horrors of vanity. And yet, it is tinged with Gervais' very human but distracting need to try to create a legacy he can be proud of. (A problem which I do not think infected The Office.) I use the word legacy deliberately; any artist wants to make work that he can feel proud about; but when you start thinking "legacy," when you move from work that makes you satisfied, to thinking about how others are going to view you and place you in the "cannon," trouble can creep in.

I don't want to overstate this, though. I still think Extras is good work with a lot of authentically created funny moments. But having just watched 30 hours of Curb Your Enthusiasm , I realize that not only is Curb much more consistently funny and impeccably paced, but the humor is far more organic.

Larry David, while certainly intensely concerned with making good work, does not, I don't think, suffer from the same sort of ambition that Ricky Gervais does, and is therefore, despite his obvious difficulties navigating the terrain of daily life, in a funny way freer, which shows in his work.

nspector, "Lame" was too strong a word for me to ...

2007-02-11T23:49:00.000-05:00

nspector,

"Lame" was too strong a word for me to use. But I do feel that the show depends on the celebrity cameos more than it should -- like Ian McKellen's cameo in tonight's episode, which seemed funnier and less contrived in its execution than the main storyline, which hinged on the convenient appearance of not one but four homophobic schlubs from Andy's high school days. I wouldn't call _Extras_ tiresome, but I do think it is hit-or-miss in terms of creating funny moments that feel natural/character-based rather than artificial/overly plotted. I know Gervais and Merchant are capable of creating comedic moments organically, and I just feel they don't quite hit the mark here. I find myself watching it mostly for the celebrity cameos, including cameos by British performers I don't even recognize (like Barry, from _Eastenders_, whom I've always assumed is playing himself, though I've never bothered to verify that fact).

I don't have a direct link about the "vanity project" aspect, mostly just comments from others who seem to have followed the show's development more closely (not-so-great example: the comment by "wallwriting" here) so maybe I am simply extrapolating from Gervais' comments about leveraging the popularity of _The Office_ for _Extras_ (as he mentions in an interview with Alan Sepinwall here. I also don't think calling it a "vanity project" is necessarily a bad thing -- I think that he is certainly committed to the show, but that he also recognizes it is a project he had to do so he could suffer through the difficult-second-album syndrome that was going to follow whatever TV project followed _The Office_. I only meant to suggest that the ability to work with good-humored celebrities probably eases the suffering a bit.

But as for the layers of self-referentiality, I think you underestimate Gervais (and Merchant). As the interviews with Alan Sepinwall and the Onion AV Club above suggest, Gervais is pretty canny (and sometimes catty) about the mechanics of sitcoms, particularly UK sitcoms, and I wouldn't put it past him to indirectly acknowledge when _Extras_ falls into a cliche.

Anon

Wow. More Extras disgust than I would have imagin...

2007-02-09T21:45:00.000-05:00

Wow. More Extras disgust than I would have imagined. I do agree that Larry David pulls off a similar kind of comedy with more freshness, and often way more funniness. And he (somehow) maintains authenticity more consistently.

But I'm surprised to see that most of you feel that Extras is tiresome and mediocre at best. For me most of the moments that don't work are when Maggie gets just too dumb for words. Sure, the cameos and even some of the bits with regulars, can get broad, but that really doesn't bother me. (Exception: Daniel Radcliffe and his flying "johnny.")
And, for whatever reason, I did not find the David Bowie cameo lame.

Also, anon, I find it hard to believe that there are that many levels of self-referential commentary -- at least not purposely. I don't think that Gervais sees Extras as a vanity project. But maybe I should go and read more of what you've written about that show before I'm so sure of myself . . .

I already wrote way too much about _Extras_ over ...

2007-02-09T19:37:46.384-05:00

I already wrote way too much about _Extras_ over on Alan's blog, but Todd, you reminded me of something:

Didn't you read the Chris Martin cameo in episode four as a commentary on the lameness of musical guest star cameos like Bowie's in episode two? I just thought it was another way the show was acknowledging itself as the vanity project it is. "Sure our show's kind of lame, but did you see Daniel Radcliffe fling a condom onto Dame Diana Rigg's head?"

Anon

Sorry, guys. Been away from a computer for a few d...

2007-02-09T14:52:51.747-05:00

Sorry, guys. Been away from a computer for a few days!

I think most of the faults you've identified are more true of the first season than the second. I liked the first season, but only on the "this makes me laugh" level. In many ways, its biggest faults are the same of many sitcoms -- who honestly thinks that Kate Winslet would hang out with the extras on one of her movies and complain about not getting an Oscar, etc. It was all sitcom contrivance -- funny sitcom contrivance, but still pretty strained.

That said, the second season has integrated its cameos more successfully (only the David Bowie one has felt REALLY tacked on so far, and at least that gave us the Chubby Little Loser song). Now that Andy is somewhat famous, it makes sense that he would run into these people -- more sense than it ever made for Will & Grace to run into Madonna or Archie Bunker to give a ride to Sammy Davis, Jr.

Extras isn't wholly successful, but I think its second season accomplishes most of what it sets out to do, and if you're not watching, you ought to give it another shake.

I concur, but without even the spark of enthusiasm...

2007-02-07T15:26:00.000-05:00

I concur, but without even the spark of enthusiasm for the cameos. If I wanted to watch pasty British people suffer in hot-faced shame for things they ignorantly said or did, I'd ask them about Tony Blair.

I think this is a good analysis of a decent show, ...

2007-02-07T14:58:00.000-05:00

I think this is a good analysis of a decent show, but I'm glad Edward brought up Curb Your Enthusiasm. Most of Larry David's troubles are his own fault. Andy has some distasteful personal qualities and certainly has made some bad, yet understandable, career moves, but it's impossible to believe that he wouldn't have fired that buffoon of an agent long ago.

Aside from the cameos, which are usually pretty fu...

2007-02-07T11:38:20.213-05:00

Aside from the cameos, which are usually pretty funny, I find Extras to be an extreme disappointment. Maggie and Andy's getting themselves in tangles by saying or doing things they shouldn't reminds me far too much of Curb Your Enthusiasm, which pulls it off with much more finesse and humor. On top of that, the cameos do seem to be just stuck in and aren't integrated into the show successfully the way the late, great Larry Sanders Show did. Part of that I think stems from the fact that Sanders had better drawn characters and could actually succeed with episodes that weren't dependent on the cameos.