Comments on The House Next Door: Afro fantasia: Bill Condon's Dreamgirls

Yeah, but with a song in your heart.

2007-01-04T10:40:00.000-05:00

Yeah, but with a song in your heart.

SB: I want you to get busy writing a musical co...

2007-01-03T23:24:00.000-05:00
SB: I want you to get busy writing a musical comedy remake of Sweet Sweetback's Baadaass Song to send to Spike's office.

(Opening Number, entitled "A Baadassss Song," sung by three Afro-clad women and one hippy-ish White woman)

He's big, he's Black
He's the Sweetback!
Tryin' ta shake da Man off of his back
(woh-woh-woh-woh!)

He gives no slack!
He's a main mack!
Runnin' like Jesse Owens
On crack!
(He's one fast bro!)

This is Sweet Sweetback's
Baadassss song!
Two a's
and five s's!
When he gets under our dresses
We scream go, bro, go!!!!
You's a bad Negro!
Sweet Sweetback!
(cue wah-wah guitar solo!)

I'm so going to hell.

odie,

I want you to get busy writing a musi...

2007-01-03T22:22:00.000-05:00
odie,

I want you to get busy writing a musical comedy remake of Sweet Sweetback's Baadaass Song to send to Spike's office.

Or The Toy.

Don't argue with me on this. Just do.

(where the fk you been all my life?)

odienator..hilarious!

as a white person...i...

2007-01-03T17:36:00.000-05:00
odienator..hilarious!

as a white person...i had the chance to sing "Got me a Cadillac" as the Pat Boone-ish vegas act...but had to pass on it. what i could have done with that role. To scare the shit out of the audience with that would have been worth it.

Kino: um that's a nice...yeah okay. So any blac...

2007-01-03T17:22:00.000-05:00
Kino: um that's a nice...yeah okay. So any black person will work for free..nice.

As a Black person, the only way I would have done it for free is if I could have played Effie. Scaring the shit out of people would be worth it, especially since there is "no way, no no no no way" I'd be convincing. :)

As for that Spielberg CGI comment: Steven Boone, you buggin'! Seriously, I heard that Spielberg was going to use CGI to replace Harpo with Harpo Marx, and Oprah was going to redub her famous line with "You tol' Harpo to BEEP me!"

when i was a wee lad i saw Dreamgirls SRO, with Je...

2007-01-03T16:16:00.000-05:00
when i was a wee lad i saw Dreamgirls SRO, with Jennifer Holiday. She was/is one of a kind in the role. the sheer power and stamina, and grace. i'm curious to see how Hudson handles the role.

as a promotion for the movie, regional and community theaters around the country (atleast in the northeast)..were encouraged to stage the show last year without paying the royalty fees you usually have to pay when putting on a broadway show. i saw one of the production up in Stamford Conn. Kids from as far as the Bronx, Queens and Brooklyn(!) came to perform in the show... The stage show is a true endurance test. Almost non stop, full-on from the gut singing..and that these kids did so well in a three hour show, i was in awe. Of course the choice comments i heard from some of the white folks on the board of the theater were as follows (i guess my skin color made them assume i was a sympathetic listener): (classic hand to the side of the mouth, eyes in opposite direction discreet comment).Y'know they got tons of black churches in connecticut. all they had to do was go into one of them and get anyone eager to do a show. I don't get it."..um that's a nice...yeah okay. So any black person will work for free..nice..um..gotta go to the bathroom dude.

anyway..i got to hang with the cast after the show and it was a lesson in heart and soul. especially the girl who played Effie. Staring at me in zonked out exhaustion.

matt and odie,

I heard Spielberg was going ...

2007-01-03T11:17:00.000-05:00
matt and odie,

I heard Spielberg was going to revisit The Color Purple by adapting the musical, but decided to just insert more songs into the original using CGI.

Nah, just playing. But I wouldn't blink if it did happen.

Spike should stick to musicals the way John Singleton should stick with action flicks.

Matt: I wish [Spike would] scratch that itch as...

2007-01-02T19:44:00.000-05:00
Matt: I wish [Spike would] scratch that itch as often as possible. I suspect he'd be great at it, if he got to make more than one, and develop that side of his talent in a sustained way.

As much as I love the School Daze soundtrack (I'd gone through three cassettes of it before getting the CD), the movie is Spike's biggest disappointment for me. (Note: biggest disappointment, NOT worst movie.) Lee certainly showed he had musical chops, and had the film been pitched at the same hilariously mean and satirical level as its Straight and Nappy number, it would have been a masterpiece. All that pseudo-Animal House shit he put in was a waste of time.

Maybe Spike can do Jelly's Last Jam or hook up with Tony Kushner and do Caroline, or Change. Or he could give Maria Von Trapp an ultra perm and show us how truly alive those hills were!

I typed too soon -- I just found a news brief that...

2007-01-02T14:15:00.000-05:00
I typed too soon -- I just found a news brief that said Lee was never officially attached to "Rent," but lobbied hard for it, to the point of auditioning people in NYC in early 2001.

And of course, one could argue that a Lee-directed West Side Story would be redundant after School Daze.

Odienator: As far as movie musicals go, I know ...

2007-01-02T14:11:00.000-05:00
Odienator: As far as movie musicals go, I know we're getting Hairspray, but I'd love to see Spike Lee take on Bring in da Noize, Bring in da Funk.

Actually, Lee talked about doing a movie version of that for a couple of years, but for reasons I don't quite understand, it never happened. Ditto another potential Lee musical that I was dying to see -- a proposed black/Latino update of West Side Story.

Then of course, there was the long-awaited Spike Lee version of Rent, which ended up being directed by...Oh, God, do I need to type his name and invoke bad karma?

It's clear that the man has a serious jones for musicals -- even his nonmusical movies tend to turn into musicals at some point. I wish he'd scratch that itch as often as possible. I suspect he'd be great at it, if he got to make more than one, and develop that side of his talent in a sustained way.

I have not seen the film yet, but I was lucky enou...

2007-01-02T11:13:00.000-05:00
I have not seen the film yet, but I was lucky enough to be working in the entertainment press in Boston on the night that "Dreamgirls" opened for out-of-town tryouts. So I got to see/hear Jennifer Holliday sing that amazing song live for the first time! So many years later, I still remember the power of that performance.

Steven, when I was a kid, I rarely got my hair cut...

2007-01-02T01:36:00.000-05:00
Steven, when I was a kid, I rarely got my hair cut at the barbershop. I had a big-ass 'Fro that my Pops would shape up for me. When I was a teenager, however, I let the barbershops in NYC and in Jersey City do all manner of horrible things to my hair with clippers, things I regret and that no one can see pictures of...EVER! At those barbers, they were more thorough in their removal of the Jet Beauty; you were lucky if you saw an ankle or a small piece of exposed thigh. The mailman on my block (who was a crackhead!) would also remove the Jet Beauty from my subscription, causing me to sic my Doberman on his ass one day. Nobody pulls the hot chick picture out of my "ghetto Cliffs Notes."

I'm starting to think that The Departed is going to sweep the Oscars, and Dreamgirls will get the nod for costumes, sets, and Ms. Hudson. I don't think Eddie Murphy will even get nominated, which is a sin because he's the best thing about the movie. I've got plenty of side bets on Marty getting the Oscar.

As far as movie musicals go, I know we're getting Hairspray, but I'd love to see Spike Lee take on Bring in da Noize, Bring in da Funk.

I agree with you on critics meeting Lynch halfway on Inland. I also believe that if Lynch pulled a Warhol, and shot three hours of my toes, scoring the "footage" to Nina Simone, critics would hail it a masterpiece because Lynch's name was on it. There'd be a big sloppy piece about it on this blog discussing my flat feet as a symbol of being worn down by oppression or some shit like that. Symbolism...sigh.

-Odie, you triflin heifer, you know damn well that...

2007-01-01T23:58:00.000-05:00
-Odie, you triflin heifer, you know damn well that nobody orders subscriptions to Jet but barbershop owners. (Was it just my neighborhood, or did other dudes in other cities flip open barbershop copies of Jet to find the Beauty of the Week page sloppily torn out? All you'd get was a glimpse of knee or thong strap. Relief came at the checkout counter.)

-I do think Condon scaled the Deena role to Beyonce's strengths/weaknesses, so I'm sure if I was there for the B'way Deena like you, I'd be less forgiving.

-Alls I know about Cuba is that he made me cry in Boyz in the Hood, brought out a stirring subtext to The Fighting Temptations that almost saved it from its Carbon Copy-style racial drag-assing, and, in Rat Race, pantomimed heatstroke and uttered the word "vagina" in a wheezing panic not seen since Stir Crazy. Brill. Yant.

-Inland Empire wouldn't have to make sense if it were beautiful. I think critics and Lynch diehards are meeting it halfway, which is something I never try to do. I wasn't givin up nothin to Dreamgirls at the gate, and it wound up tugging on my heart, drawing me in.

SB: You don't own Carmen Jones. But do you subs...

2007-01-01T16:52:00.000-05:00
SB: You don't own Carmen Jones. But do you subscribe to Ebony? Jet? See? See?

I used to subscribe to both Ebony and Jet, but the triflin' way those heifers handled my subscription (yeah, that's right, I said "triflin'" and "heifers"!) forced me to cancel both of them. My favorite Ebony error came when I didn't get a magazine for six months, then they sent me all six at once. Still, you'll find me at the checkout line looking at the Jet "Beauty of the Week."

SB: but I do think that some flicks short circuit a viewer's critical faculties, and Dreamgirls looks like one of them.

You know what another one is? Inland Empire! (it makes no fucking sense, but hey, it's David Lynch so it's gotta be about something!! FOUR STARS!!) See, that's an unpopular thing to say out here at the House, something that might get me, pun intended, lynched.
Picking on Dreamgirls is easy.

SB: People will continue to dis Beyonce's performance the way Brokeback Jake Gyllenhal got ignored in favor of Heath Ledger:

No...Jake was good, even if Gene Shalit was afraid Jake was going to bust out of the screen and ask him to rub mustaches with him. If there's anything that could cure an attraction to men, it's Gene Shalit.

Beyonce is another story. It felt like Condon was not confident with her performance. The role as I remember it on Broadway seemed to be flashier and thicker. I felt sorry for Beyonce, not for her character, because it really felt like she was over her head. The only scene she's comfortable in is her "Listen" number.

Regarding House Party, I was older than you when I saw it. I remember disliking much of it, then two weeks later, going back to see it again (I was dragged) and falling in love with it. That feeling you felt with Ms. Campbell, and I felt looking at some of the shots Condon employs of Jennifer Hudson, was seeing a normal "around the way girl" getting the treatment we'd give her if we saw her on the street in our neighborhood. More than one girl in my neighborhood got those close-ups in my mind when I was a teenager. Of course, the camera moved down and got stuck a little lower, and for that I apologize, ladies.

As Cuba Gooding Jr's doppelganger, I couldn't leave here without commenting on your notion that he is "a brilliant actor." I think he's great in Boyz, Jerry Maguire and even that movie he was in with (GASP!) Beyonce. He's an actor who can express joy and pathos in ways that are infectious (witness his Oscar speech which, sorry, is exactly how I would have done it, except I would have thrown my Oscar upside Bill Conti's head first). But I can't go to the brilliant level with you. I just can't. I saw Boat Trip and Lightning Jack.

On the Beyonce thing:

To me, it's all a par...

2007-01-01T15:54:00.000-05:00
On the Beyonce thing:

To me, it's all a part of the whole syndrome of mistaking an attractive personality for a strong performance. In the case of Dreamgirls, Jennifer Hudson is as skilled an actress as she is charismatic. Beyonce has less of a challenge, playing a kind of vapid pretty girl out of her depth and saddled with coveted genetics she never asked for (yes, playing HERSELF), but she meets that challenge. If you think that's so easy, watch Mariah Carey's nuclear failure at playing herself in Glitter.

Faulting Beyonce's acting for making Deena weak and unlikeable is like saying Shelley Duvall's performance as pathetic Wendy Torrance in The Shining is itself pathetic.

And I'm sure there's a lot of people who missed how good Matt Damon was as the [SPOILER--->] tragic phony in The Departed because Leo's character was the one they root for.

It's all part of a larger phenomenon of Ho'wood actors losing or gaining popular stature for reasons that have fuckall to do with their abilities. It's the mirage that has folks (including world class film directors) believing Johnny Depp can act (rather than just mug and mimic) while disregarding a brilliant actor like Cuba Gooding, Jr. because he's done his best work in some idiotic flicks.

There's a few references on the Internet to Beyonc...

2007-01-01T13:43:00.000-05:00
There's a few references on the Internet to Beyonce being in that, but I don't see any authoritative source saying she was in it -- and I saw the movie and don't remember her being in it.

Steve makes a couple of points in this piece that stick with me. One is that Beyonce's getting on-the-job training as an actress and still isn't there yet, but she's got a certain likability that carries her over the rough patches. In "Goldmember," she pretty much sucked, but she looked so fab -- like a blaxploitation poster come to life -- that I never minded being stuck with her for a couple of hours. (I felt that way about Christina Milian in the borderline incompetent "Get Shorty" sequel "Be Cool" -- she was more a competent ingenue with great pipes than an actor, but she was sweet, and the movie didn't ask too much of her.)

was Beyonce in Wisegirls, Noel?

sure...

2007-01-01T11:02:00.000-05:00
was Beyonce in Wisegirls, Noel?

surely you mean Mariah Carey?

or did i miss her in it (i've only seen it in bits and pieces on cable...)

On Beyonce's acting: she gives a decent performanc...

2007-01-01T03:59:00.000-05:00
On Beyonce's acting: she gives a decent performance in David Anspaugh's Wisegirls, alongside Mira Sorvino. Nice ensemble cast, nice ensemble performance.

Lord, lots to say.

afkap and Matt, thanks f...

2006-12-31T20:22:00.000-05:00
Lord, lots to say.

afkap and Matt, thanks for catching the Ballard gaffe. Yeah I knew, but my typing hands moved a little faster than my command of the facts on that one.

Odienator, you said, "What is this supposed to imply? That, had less White critics been embarrassed by the film, its embracing by Blacks would be more respectable? That Black people would accept what these critics deem an inferior product simply because it's about us?"

'course not, but I do think that some flicks short circuit a viewer's critical faculties, and Dreamgirls looks like one of them. It's so gorgeous and, in many ways, flattering to a black audience (yes, a BLACK audience) that its flaws seem trivial. Sometimes resonance trumps taste, especially for those of us black folks down here below the 30k/yr line who are starving for images that express our (yes, OUR) unique struggle in dramatic, pop art terms. Anything inside the ballpark doesn't necessarily merit a medal but should be savored and pondered.

I remember seeing House Party as a teenager, and the lovesick lump in my throat at watching Tisha Campbell in a romantic closeup. I had never seen a black girl look so beautiful and sweet on the big screen before. I suddenly understood why my elders got so excited about blaxploitation gahbage like Coffy. Diamond in the dirt.

As for segregation, what's so shocking about that? It's a fact of life in America. Just because you and I don't practice it in our moviegoing doesn't mean it isn't a prevailing force in the culture.

People will continue to dis Beyonce's performance the way Brokeback Jake Gyllenhal got ignored in favor of Heath Ledger: The bolder, more aggressive role always looks like the greater accomplishment. At a glance.

I love this, though: "If Effie had slapped Beyonce, and people in my theater were demanding that she do just that, Beyonce would have exploded like John Cassavettes at the end of The Fury."

You don't own Carmen Jones. But do you subscribe to Ebony? Jet? See? See?

Well, those expecting a weak performance from B...

2006-12-31T18:38:00.000-05:00
Well, those expecting a weak performance from Beyonce will be delighted/confounded to find that she has become a decent actress.

We weren't watching the same movie. While she's not as bad as Mariah in Glitter or Miss Ross in Mahogany, she is still somewhat painful to watch. Great to look at, but painful to watch. Until her big "this shoulda been a Mary J. Blige song" Listen, Beyonce has very little to do in the way of performance. Her big battle sequence with Hudson before Effie's big number has her blown off the screen by both Hudson and Anika Noni Rose. If Effie had slapped Beyonce, and people in my theater were demanding that she do just that, Beyonce would have exploded like John Cassavettes at the end of The Fury.

Perhaps Beyonce shoulda sang that catchy "please Sweet Jesus, stop them from playing this so goddamn much on the radio" Irreplaceable. That at least sounds like her style of "you go girl!" song.

Like Bill Condon and Ed-DEE, I was in the audience back in 1982 when Jennifer Holliday made And I'm Telling You Yada Yada Yada into the Broadway classic favored by years of Showtime at the Apollo Amateur night contestants and drag queens. I thought the theater was going to come down around me that night; I've never had a Broadway experience like that before or since. Hudson acquits herself quite nicely, pitching the song at a movie-friendly level. Watching Jennifer Holliday in that youtube clip was rather horrifying; it worked so much better live, with her seemingly threatening to come into the audience.

A lot of the problems you cite in your review have their roots in the Broadway production. Condon's crime is a far too slavish devotion to the musical as it existed on Broadway, but his direction and the performances by Hudson and Ed-DEE (who walks off with this picture) save Dreamgirls. Like you, I enjoyed the hell out of it despite its flaws.

I have a major problem with this:

As embarrassed as some white critics (and one White critic) have been about Dreamgirls’ lumpy mix of flamboyant negritude with bland, cruise ship arrangements of faux Motown pop, black audiences have mostly returned the love.

and...

But, as with The Color Purple, none of these weaknesses will stop black moviegoers from loving Dreamgirls to pieces.

What is this supposed to imply? That, had less White critics been embarrassed by the film, its embracing by Blacks would be more respectable? That Black people would accept what these critics deem an inferior product simply because it's about us? This level of critical segregation really bothers me, as I'm sure not just Black people love Dreamgirls to pieces. It does films like this a disservice because it not only implies that which I stated earlier (that Blacks are too stupid to know "quality") but it also implies that the only audience for a predominantly Black movie is Black people, so why make them? This is the exact way Hollywood thinks.

For the record, I don't own a copy of Sparkle (great music, bad movie, horrifying dress homegirl has on at the end--haven't seen it since it came out) and, while Ms. Dandridge's Carmen was hotter than any Black woman was allowed to be back then, her performance is the only good thing in that film, so I don't own a copy of that either. Coming to America is a different story: I own that. I laugh at the familiarity of the barber shop, jHeri curl and church show scenes, and I laugh hard. It's a comedy, so I suppose that means it does its job. Sexual Chocolate!

Speaking of Sexual Chocolate:

a plump black woman that makes you want to climb into the screen and make passionate love to her.

I'm with you on that.

Editor's note to Afkap: I think Steve knows tha...

2006-12-31T18:20:00.000-05:00
Editor's note to Afkap: I think Steve knows that, but the passage was written in such a way as to confuse the fictionalized characters and the real people. It's been changed for clarification's sake.

Ah yeah... I kinda got that feeling, but yeah, it was a little confusing.

Great piece, otherwise!

Editor's note to Afkap: I think Steve knows that, ...

2006-12-31T18:14:00.000-05:00
Editor's note to Afkap: I think Steve knows that, but the passage was written in such a way as to confuse the fictionalized characters and the real people. It's been changed for clarification's sake. Good eye.

I meant to say thank you, Steven. Thank you, Steve...

2006-12-31T18:12:00.000-05:00
I meant to say thank you, Steven. Thank you, Steven.

I'm not even trying to think about seeing this non...

2006-12-31T17:52:00.000-05:00
I'm not even trying to think about seeing this nonsense, but thank you, Ryland, for calling all those involved out. Is there really a chance in hell that this thing might walk with the best picture Oscar? O powers of the univerese, help us.

Happy New Year & Peace y'all!

Oh, I'd definitely say none of the musical numbers...

2006-12-31T17:48:00.000-05:00
Oh, I'd definitely say none of the musical numbers in Dreamgirls is as entertaining as The Blues Brothers, but I did enjoy the hell out of it, for all its wild inconsistencies and "flaws."

But in my imagination, in the mental vault with Hitchcock's Titanic and Sam Raimi's Batman, there's a much crazier John Landis Dreamgirls, written by Joel Schumacher.

Comments on The House Next Door: Afro fantasia: Bill Condon's Dreamgirls

Yeah, but with a song in your heart.

SB: I want you to get busy writing a musical co...

odie,

I want you to get busy writing a musi...

odienator..hilarious!

as a white person...i...

Kino: um that's a nice...yeah okay. So any blac...

when i was a wee lad i saw Dreamgirls SRO, with Je...

matt and odie,

I heard Spielberg was going ...

Matt: I wish [Spike would] scratch that itch as...

I typed too soon -- I just found a news brief that...

Odienator: As far as movie musicals go, I know ...

I have not seen the film yet, but I was lucky enou...

Steven, when I was a kid, I rarely got my hair cut...

-Odie, you triflin heifer, you know damn well that...

SB: You don't own Carmen Jones. But do you subs...

On the Beyonce thing:

To me, it's all a par...

There's a few references on the Internet to Beyonc...

was Beyonce in Wisegirls, Noel?

sure...

On Beyonce's acting: she gives a decent performanc...

Lord, lots to say.

afkap and Matt, thanks f...

Well, those expecting a weak performance from B...

Editor's note to Afkap: I think Steve knows tha...

Editor's note to Afkap: I think Steve knows that, ...

I meant to say thank you, Steven. Thank you, Steve...

I'm not even trying to think about seeing this non...

Oh, I'd definitely say none of the musical numbers...

Comments on The House Next Door: Afro fantasia: Bill Condon's Dreamgirls

Yeah, but with a song in your heart.

SB: I want you to get busy writing a musical co...

odie,I want you to get busy writing a musi...

odienator..hilarious!as a white person...i...

Kino: um that's a nice...yeah okay. So any blac...

when i was a wee lad i saw Dreamgirls SRO, with Je...

matt and odie,I heard Spielberg was going ...

Matt: I wish [Spike would] scratch that itch as...

I typed too soon -- I just found a news brief that...

Odienator: As far as movie musicals go, I know ...

I have not seen the film yet, but I was lucky enou...

Steven, when I was a kid, I rarely got my hair cut...

-Odie, you triflin heifer, you know damn well that...

SB: You don't own Carmen Jones. But do you subs...

On the Beyonce thing:To me, it's all a par...

There's a few references on the Internet to Beyonc...

was Beyonce in Wisegirls, Noel?sure...

On Beyonce's acting: she gives a decent performanc...

Lord, lots to say.afkap and Matt, thanks f...

Well, those expecting a weak performance from B...

Editor's note to Afkap: I think Steve knows tha...

Editor's note to Afkap: I think Steve knows that, ...

I meant to say thank you, Steven. Thank you, Steve...

I'm not even trying to think about seeing this non...

Oh, I'd definitely say none of the musical numbers...

odie,

I want you to get busy writing a musi...

odienator..hilarious!

as a white person...i...

matt and odie,

I heard Spielberg was going ...

On the Beyonce thing:

To me, it's all a par...

was Beyonce in Wisegirls, Noel?

sure...

Lord, lots to say.

afkap and Matt, thanks f...