Comments on The House Next Door: The Sexy, Surreal Slice & Dice of Nip/Tuck

Ahem - per my previous comment about the S4 finale...

2006-12-15T02:32:00.000-05:00

Ahem - per my previous comment about the S4 finale...Wilbur *was* mentioned by Christian at the very end.

Therefore, it rocked.

Andrew -

I stand corrected. Yeah, now that...

2006-12-14T20:30:00.000-05:00

Andrew -

I stand corrected. Yeah, now that you lay it out, that sounds right (unless that dialogue played out in front of Michelle during the sequence I outlined above). Per Elton from LOVE & MONSTERS, "We forget because we must"...

I recall a quote I once heard from Murphy: "We jumped the shark in the first episode and have in just about every episode since". Sometimes I think that's the key to appreciating NIP/TUCK.

That bit about Pakistan and your observation is a riot. If the humor is lost in translation, the show probably comes across as yet another reason to be annoyed by American behavior.

It was Gina who stole Wilbur from the park - no...

2006-12-14T18:33:00.000-05:00
It was Gina who stole Wilbur from the park - not James. Yeah, James was lurking there and we assumed she was the one who snatched him, and she played up on the idea when confronting Michelle -- but I got the impression that she witnessed the abduction by Gina and simply played it to her benefit (well up until the BLAM! moment anyway).

I'm pretty sure that before the abduction, there was a scene in which James was shown talking on the phone to someone (Gallardo?) and asking what the market price of a child's kidneys was, then responding "I'll have two for you later today". Either she came into Christian's apartment while he was away and Michelle and Wilber were home, or they came home and found that she'd broken in. Either way, I distinctly remember a shot of Bisset on the phone talking about Wilber's impending demise while playing with him and making him laugh. To me, it just seemed ludicrously over the top for her to be willing to kill a freaking infant just to reinforce her power over Michelle (which seemed like the motive). I've already deleted the episode off my TiVo, so I can't go back to check.

From the Wikipedia article on the series, I just learned that Nip/Tuck is available in Pakistan, albeit on two satellite channels that are probably received by an extremely small number of extremely wealthy people. I can't think of a current show (except maybe The L Word) that would seem less likely to get picked up in an Islamic country than N/T (no other Islamic nations were on the list as far as I could tell), but I suppose stranger things have happened.

Todd wrote:

N/T is exhibit A for why mos...

2006-12-14T17:30:00.000-05:00
Todd wrote:

N/T is exhibit A for why most daytime soap operas stretch out their main story points over decades.

See, I'd also say it's Exhibit A as to how to keep a story moving without getting bogged down in minutiae, as so many shows seem to do.

Your feelings are valid and I can see why you reacted the way you did at the time you did. Maybe the thing I like most about N/T is its inability to please most of the people, most of the time. It knows its audience.

Indeed, if S4 (at least the first half) can be accused of anything, it might be that it was trying too hard to grab new viewers. But that's the ratings-driven TV world in which we live, ain't it? Whatever they're doing, they're doing something right. Apparently S4 had the highest ratings to date, although the ratings for the finale have yet to be released.

James/Andrew -

Probably through both the piece and this talkback, I've misrepresented my feelings somewhat: S2 (with Famke as Ava) is far and away my favorite of the bunch. Everything about that season and esp the big reveal of the finale kept me on the edge of my seat - and I think maybe the reveal was so ideal that there was a feeling S3 needed to build to something even bigger.

S2 features probably my favorite N/T ep, "Rose and Raven Rosenberg" which has probably my favorite scene in the series:

Sean picks up a hooker, whom he and Christian rename "Julia" for the night. They get high and end up having a threesome with her -- and they both envision Joely throughout the "process". Oh, and Todd Rundgren's "Can We Still be Friends?" plays through the entire sequence.

Bisset conspiring to steel Wilber's kidneys IMHO had to be the most contrived development they've ever served up

But was this actually the case? It was Gina who stole Wilbur from the park - not James. Yeah, James was lurking there and we assumed she was the one who snatched him, and she played up on the idea when confronting Michelle -- but I got the impression that she witnessed the abduction by Gina and simply played it to her benefit (well up until the BLAM! moment anyway).

Usually when I'm into a show like I am N/T, I spend a fair amount of time at least lurking on fan messages boards, but I don't with this one. Here's a fascinating post from Ryan Murphy on a board that he apparently frequents. Near as I can gather, he actually named the character "Diane Lubey" after two of the posters on this board. It seems he's optimistic about being onboard for at least two more seasons. Thanks to the blog Nip/Tuck Fanatic for the link.

N/T was at its best in season one, I agrree, but I...

2006-12-14T08:45:00.000-05:00
N/T was at its best in season one, I agrree, but I can't help thinking this year was a step down from S3. Most of the Carver storyline was shoddy, but the series was never finer at doing one of the things it does best--exploring the nature of male sexuality and shining a light into odd corners of the male mind that most shows shy from. S3's "Momma Boone", "Kiki", "Granville Trapp" and especially "Abby Mays" were among the series' finest, and Matt's story lines all season were superb (I forgot to mention "Sal Perri", the best-ever Julia-centered episode). S4 had some strong moments, but I felt it was too dominated by guest stars and over-the-top cases to ever develop real thematic heft (Bisset conspiring to stel Wilber's kidneys IMHO had to be the most contrived development they've ever served up).

It'll be interesting to see where S5 might go. One thing that ocurred to me is that a backdrop change to LA would certainly let them make the show on a lower budget. They don't go to great lengths to recreate Miami, but the steps they take gotta cost something...

This was the best season for me. But I didn't hate...

2006-12-13T19:17:00.000-05:00
This was the best season for me. But I didn't hate season 3. I thought it was pretty good, even though I pegged the Carver, only to be tricked into thinking I was wrong. They did good job of obscuring that until the end.

Matt becoming a nazi seemed a bit much, but the show likes to push buttons. I wonder where they can go from here. But I think they have at least one more good season in them if they continue on with LA as the new settig.

Hey, Ross.

I enjoyed the first season-and-a...

2006-12-13T17:02:00.000-05:00
Hey, Ross.

I enjoyed the first season-and-a-half of N/T on its own merits -- it was never my favorite show on TV, but it was an enjoyably trashy good time that was self-aware enough to realize its fundamental vapidness.

But about midway through season two, I feel, the show started to lose some of its steam. Simply, it had burned through so much damn story that there was little left to do other than send the characters through ridiculous contortions (or turn a serial killer loose among them). Since the characters were little more than vehicles for the plot to begin with, the show began to dissipate.

The only interesting thing about the show ever was its central love triangle, and that's been twisted and warped in so many different ways now that it exhausts me. N/T is exhibit A for why most daytime soap operas stretch out their main story points over decades.

I just started watching this show earlier this sea...

2006-12-13T13:26:00.000-05:00
I just started watching this show earlier this season and was somewhat disappointed with the finale (as well as the last few episode storylines). But after reading how well the series started out,I'll be getting the box sets to see what i've been missing.

Anon -

What _Nip/Tuck_ did best was mov...

2006-12-13T01:13:00.000-05:00
Anon -

What _Nip/Tuck_ did best was move the plot along, and the Carver storyline (which could never have lived up to its buildup) destroyed the pace. _Nip/Tuck_ went from grandly baroque to merely gothic.

I ~LOVE~ the way you phrased that, It's (no pun intended) dead on. I'd built up this theory at the time that the Carver was Sean (won't bother rehashing it here, as it's irrelevant - but clearly you get the show and can probably at least half-guess where I was coming from).

I always felt that when the Carver was revealed it should be someone important, and have a major effect on the series. Had it been Sean, I thought S4 would consist of the audience being in on it, but the rest of the characters oblivious.

As it stands, I'm actually glad in hindsight I was wrong. I liked S4 - esp the second half - and I adored tonight's finale. It just worked for me on every level with the minor possible exception of the fact Wilbur wasn't mentioned.

The ending was, of course, designed to allow FX the flexibility to cancel or renew the show as circumstances require, with only the two leads returning if necessary.

And I loved this most of all, Scarecrow. If this was it, they concocted an ideal finish that's brought the whole thing full circle. If it continues, there's a clean slate with which to work. (Um, in other words, "what you said".)

Biggest problem I can foresee: How many fresh digs are there to take at the shallowness of Hollywood?

I'll be there regardless with fingers crossed and champagne on ice.

Ross,

Nice piece. I would (and did) defen...

2006-12-12T23:42:00.000-05:00
Ross,

Nice piece. I would (and did) defend the first two seasons of _Nip/Tuck_ as the most gloriously trashy TV ever -- a far better soap than the coterminous _The O.C._ -- but Season 3 did it for me. The Carver storyline was allowed to eat the show. Not just the details of the storyline specifically, but the notion of a strong seasonal arc, one that drove far too many plot-heavy episodes. What _Nip/Tuck_ did best was move the plot along, and the Carver storyline (which could never have lived up to its buildup) destroyed the pace. _Nip/Tuck_ went from grandly baroque to merely gothic.

I watched much of the first half of Season 4, and the magic just wasn't there for me. The Sean/Julia storyline had run out of steam, and Christian/Michelle just didn't seem to have the chemistry that Christian/Kimber did. Crazy Faith Wolper, Ph.D., was closer to the old _Nip/Tuck_ stride, and the Marlowe storyline was genuinely sweet, but it wasn't enough to keep me hanging around. In the end the plethora of guest stars felt like a show cashing in on its popularity, not a show experiencing a rebirth after (what I thought was) a misfire of a season.

...But the second half you describe sounds more fun than the first. Roma Maffia getting the screen time she's always deserved, a farewell to Ruth Williamson, the return of (and farewell to) Joey Slotnick, and the re-emergence of Robert Lasardo -- these all sound like "good" things. Of course, they are also nostalgic things, heralding back to the highlights of earlier seasons. And, just like a plethora of guest stars, I don't actually take nostalgia as a positive indicator for the overall health of the show.

And I will say this, having just watched the finale -- From the first few minutes, I predicted exactly how the finale would go (including _exactly_ what would happen to Gallardo). A little depressing, that. The ending was, of course, designed to allow FX the flexibility to cancel or renew the show as circumstances require, with only the two leads returning if necessary. And while the notion of a reboot intrigues me -- I would have been plenty receptive to it this season -- I think it is probably best if Sean and Christian ride off into the sunset.

Of course, I know that FX probably won't allow that. And while I'm a sucker and will probably give a few episodes of the fifth season a show, I don't think a change of scenery (especially this _particular_ change of scenery) will allow the show to recapture what it has lost.

For the first time, I'd have to admit _The O.C._ is having a better season (so far).

Anon

Robert -

I'm always amazed at how lurid th...

2006-12-12T18:10:00.000-05:00
Robert -

I'm always amazed at how lurid the show feels in comparison to the HBO or Showtime material that's allowed to get away with so much more. I'd let my 13-year old watch THE SOPRANOS or SIX FEET UNDER before I'd let him watch NIP/TUCK (it's one of the only shows we watch where he's ordered to leave the room).

If this season didn't grab you so much, you owe it to yourself to go back and check out those S1 eps. As I pointed out, this season's often been dependent on the first, and you may find a greater appreciation for recent events after seeing how it all began.

Tyler -

Admittedly, it *was* the cartoonish S3 finale that killed it for me, but that finale's revelations also killed much of the rest of season in the process. When the facts were put into context, there were simply too many plot holes left over and I could no longer hang. And after nearly a season and a half of buildup, the Carver was basically reduced to a joke in the end.

That finale works on a certain level though, I believe - as a big "Fuck You!" to viewers who only cared about the person beneath the mask, rather than the real drama that the series is built on.

S3 was just too dark (and it's rare that you'll catch me saying that about ~anything~). The stuff with Matt and Cherry Peck was so bleak, that I really didn't feel it fit into the NIP/TUCK universe. In fact, I was rewatching the last two eps of S3 last night, and I had to keep myself from skipping over those final scenes set out in the woods. That material, dramatically sound though it was, was too horrific I think even for this show. Robert mentioned them above, but frankly I’m glad the issue wasn’t returned to (although Matt did mention it to Kimber early on this season). We don’t even really know if Cherry Peck killed Brian Kerwin, do we? If she did, then great – he deserved it. If not, what’s he going to do – come back and haunt them further? That’s something else I’d rather not see (at least for the time being).

All that said, I do have a massive affinity for the Carver concept, and two of my favorite eps to watch over and over are S2's "Sean McNamara" and the finale, "Joan Rivers" – both of which featured the Carver at his most threateningly effective.

I detailed some of my other feelings about the Carver & S3 over at The Rued Morgue prior to the S4 premiere. Check that out, if you haven't already.

Great write up Ross. I agree that Sean is the mor...

2006-12-12T16:35:00.000-05:00
Great write up Ross. I agree that Sean is the more interesting of the doctors (if I am forced to think of them as individuals).

Your (and, apparently everyone's) feelings about Season 3 are well-documented, but is it just the finale you disliked, or the whole season?

What I liked about the finale was the way throughout the season they followed the classical mystery setup with one exception: making the obviously odd person be the murderer.

The rest of it was well done enough that I had already taken it as given that Quentin was not the bad guy. They fooled me, and I like to give props for that when it comes to Mysteries.

(Plus, the season was rife with symbolism in the secondary/episodic arcs witch linked back to the primary.)

I was wondering when, and if, there would ever be ...

2006-12-12T11:52:00.000-05:00
I was wondering when, and if, there would ever be some NIP/TUCK lovin' around here; writers in the House have mentioned it mostly with disdain. It's my favorite dramatic series on TV, barring HBO. That the show indulges in all kinds of kinky, censor-baiting material, right to the very edge of acceptability, then pulls back and asks, "Why are you watching this, if on some level it repels you?" fascinates me. It has its cake and eats it, too, and merrily "jumps the shark" practically every episode. My wife ducks under the couch at least once per episode when the surgical tools come out.

But--it is wearing thin. Plastic people can only be bent so much, and with Joely Richardson off for an indeterminate time (her daughter is seriously ill in England, I've read) the show has lost its center. [Which likely means no Vanessa Redgrave appearances; I've missed her all season.] My mom, a viewer since Season One (I started Season Two and have never seen the premiere episodes, except via flashbacks), was turned off by the ever-more-baroque quality of the new episodes, which was inevitable as the show has to raise the bar higher and higher into more and more improbable situations (how did creepy Matt, who looks like Michael Jackson would look if he went all the way into pigmentation cleansing surgery, get off scot-free for the murder last season of the KKK guy, anyway; have I missed something? I'm a little behind in my viewing.) The Carver--a storyline I enjoyed, however ridiculous it became--seems like Jane Austen compared to the goings-on this year, and haute-villainous Jacqueline Bisset (outstanding portrayal, with its little shards of sympathy for the devil) would've made short work of him (them?).

Based on RUNNING WITH SCISSORS, a noxious film that fans of the book really hated, I'd advise Murphy not to give up his day job. [He has a facility for letting actors go to extremes, though.] But letting Salt run things for a season might be the nip/tuck the show needs; actually, a fifth and fully satisfying, final season might be just what the doctor ordered. In any event, any show that brings Catherine Denueve to US TV, and actually made me care about the plight of Rosie O'Donnell, has a few things going for it.

Comments on The House Next Door: The Sexy, Surreal Slice & Dice of Nip/Tuck

Ahem - per my previous comment about the S4 finale...

Andrew -

I stand corrected. Yeah, now that...

It was Gina who stole Wilbur from the park - no...

Todd wrote:

N/T is exhibit A for why mos...

N/T was at its best in season one, I agrree, but I...

This was the best season for me. But I didn't hate...

Hey, Ross.

I enjoyed the first season-and-a...

I just started watching this show earlier this sea...

Anon -

What _Nip/Tuck_ did best was mov...

Ross,

Nice piece. I would (and did) defen...

Robert -

I'm always amazed at how lurid th...

Great write up Ross. I agree that Sean is the mor...

I was wondering when, and if, there would ever be ...

Comments on The House Next Door: The Sexy, Surreal Slice & Dice of Nip/Tuck

Ahem - per my previous comment about the S4 finale...

Andrew - I stand corrected. Yeah, now that...

It was Gina who stole Wilbur from the park - no...

Todd wrote:N/T is exhibit A for why mos...

N/T was at its best in season one, I agrree, but I...

This was the best season for me. But I didn't hate...

Hey, Ross.I enjoyed the first season-and-a...

I just started watching this show earlier this sea...

Anon - What _Nip/Tuck_ did best was mov...

Ross, Nice piece. I would (and did) defen...

Robert - I'm always amazed at how lurid th...

Great write up Ross. I agree that Sean is the mor...

I was wondering when, and if, there would ever be ...

Andrew -

I stand corrected. Yeah, now that...

Todd wrote:

N/T is exhibit A for why mos...

Hey, Ross.

I enjoyed the first season-and-a...

Anon -

What _Nip/Tuck_ did best was mov...

Ross,

Nice piece. I would (and did) defen...

Robert -

I'm always amazed at how lurid th...